Ghosts in the Interview Loop & Avoiding AI Taylorism

Andrew Hatch


WHOAMI

we're hiring!

SWE/SRE Engineering Manager 15 years

@hatchman76

Takeaways

You cannot hire like we used to. We have to change
LLMs and AI-enabled tooling have significant productivity value.
Hollowing out of SRE Expertise is a material risk to any business
Enshittifying Complex Systems is going to hurt us all

one more thing...

Anything AI!
LLM, Agent etc...
any complex distributed
software system

Interviews in the past

Almost always in person

~100

2019...

Recruiter Screen

SRE Mindset

Management & Leadership

15 hours

Apache Web Server Diagnosis

Code challenge

Code refactor

System Design

Management and Leadership

Lunch!

And then...

2025

we made some changes

2 - 3 days

it needs more thought

Please share your ideas in Slack!

The irony though

Top down pressure to use AI

No-one wants to be left behind

Tell candidates not to use it. Then demand they do on Day 1

Is this what we want?

But then...

What happens to Expertise?
Creativity?
Innovation?
Learning?

We don't just hire for raw tech skills

The War on Expertise

We've commoditized it for centuries

Distributed Complex System Expertise is different

stochastic

dynamic

emergent

unstable

non-linear

heterogeneous

evolving

context-sensitive

and many more..

Socio Technical Systems

We love to simplify complexity

5 Whys

Even though we know we can grossly generalize

And it does help right?

William of Ockham

1287 – 1347

We just need humans with complex system expertise

But what if something could reduce this reliance?

In the past man has been first

In the future, the system must be first

Remember me?

I wrote a book once in 1911

It has 82% likes on Goodreads!

Separate Thinking, From Doing

Centralize tacit worker knowledge into prescriptive procedures Centralize tacit engineering knowledge into prescriptive LLM prompts
Hire cheaper workers to "follow the script". Hire cheaper "prompt jockeys" to follow them

This works when processes are repeatable and linear...

...but only if you don't care about worker engagement, happiness and innovation!

Modern software systems aren't like this

And haven't been for decades

"relax humans, I got this!"

Just-in-time knowledge

the speed at which we generate beliefs,

the plausibility of those beliefs, and

the distance between apparent certainty and actual understanding

The new expertise?

It removes difficulty right at the point where struggle would deepen understanding.

It takes the "happy path", avoids rich corrective feedback, just fabricates fluent answers.

It lets novices skip building mental models and jump straight to polished artifacts.

We've seen this coming

"...GPT Base helped students solve about 48% more practice problems correctly, but when the exam came without AI, those same students scored 17% worse than the kids who never used AI at all..."

https://knowledge.wharton.upenn.edu/article/without-guardrails-generative-ai-can-harm-education

Hoffman et al. (2014). Accelerated Expertise.

Novices vs experts need different conditions:

What helps experts posessing learned causal models, will hurt novices who still need to build mental models.

Desirable difficulty:

Training that's too easy → feels good, looks productive, but produces shallow learning.

Scenario-based practice in messy, real contexts:

You need exposure to realistic, varied situations and feedback, not just perfectly guided walkthroughs.

Experts seek out corrective feedback:

They want to be told where they're wrong; they don't want a tool that just makes them look right.

"Adults learn most of what they use at work or at leisure, while at work or leisure. Most of what is taught in classroom settings is forgotten, and much of what is remembered is irrelevant."
- Russell Ackoff

Understanding comes through trial and error, adaptation at the edge, testing

This is the fundamental mindset of good SREs

This is the capability we hire for and must cultivate on the job

When does AI stop being a tool?

And becomes the Operator?

Who is accountable?

SREs?

or....

And who has the expertise to fix it now?

Complex System Theory 101

TL;DR Complex System control planes will become as complex as the system they are representing

Final thoughts

Complex System SRE skills

Understand interactions between components, build awareness of unintended consequences

Adapt to dynamic conditions, rebuild mental models

Think critically, make trade-offs under pressure

Tool vs Operator

As a tool it vastly improves productivity and reduces mundane, repetitive tasks

But as an Operator it threatens to enshittify your systems

We have to adapt

Understand the impacts on hiring and recruiting - the old signals are changing
Be clear on what we are cultivating and incentivizing with AI - and the impacts
Know distinctly on what the value of AI is, to your role, to your teams, to your business
What really matters is how we adapt to it, not how we fight it

Humans are, and always have been, the most adaptable components of any complex socio-technical system

The ability to learn and build expertise in these system is critical to their success and safety

AI must be our partner, not a replacement

Thank you!

https://srecon26.hatchman76.com

@hatchman76

References

Accelerated Expertise — R. Hoffman, P. Ward, P. Feltovich (2013)
Five Minds for the Future — Howard Gardner (2005)
From Mechanistic to Systemic Thinking — Russell L. Ackoff (YouTube)
How Complex Systems Fail — Richard I. Cook (2000)
Knowing What We Know — Simon Winchester (2023)
Manufacturing Advantage — E. Appelbaum, T. Bailey, P. Berg (2000)
Talking about Machines — Julian E. Orr (1996)
The Principles of Scientific Management — Frederick Winslow Taylor (1911)
The Tyranny of Metrics — Jerry Z. Muller (2018)
The Unaccountability Machine — Dan Davies (2024)